Sometimes life circumstances have to kind of help people do the right thing. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. I present to you James River church in Springfield Missouri this past weekend. full of manly manness and praise of human strength and wisdom and all the attributes mark has himself. It could be that they are as ignorant as I once was, but it makes me distrust their judgment and discernment and dislike them all the same. In the future, people will tell churches and christians to distance themselves from the dishonesty of the dishonest churches. Your facts are a bit off, beginning with the meaning of Che. I am no fan of his, but there are some big holes in your acvount of his life. It is profoundly ironic that false teachers twist this particular scripture in an abusive way to their advantage just so that they can continue abusing. HUG so aptly quotes GK Chesterton, and let me paraphrase her, i tweeted: So work harder for the state and your comrades who do not meet their quotas. John Lindell, pastor of James River Church, represents a new breed of reformed Assembly of God pastors yes Calvinism in the Assembly of God! Its more the non-complementarian position to argue that women should be allowed to preach/lead based on gifting and that sounds like the argument Driscoll is raising in the quotes by him I placed in this post. appeciate your posts and the others on this blog. If Mark Driscoll is going to wanna manipulate his 501(c)3 Church audience to give him a second chance, hes gonna havta try harder. You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting such a bully in the name of Jesus Christ. Driscoll was never really qualified to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the first place he proved that time and time again by his un-Christlike behavior in word and action. Excellent comment! Obviously, I disagree with Lindell on the upcoming vote. I have to disagree Gus considering you mentioned brain cells. He told me Tuesday that he has every right to campaign for repeal in a sermon. Maybe then, someone would seek him out to lead and it would be safe again. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. But much of the Australian backlash has centred around Mr Driscoll's comments about women. People shift roles all the time (Mark has obviously been a persecutor a lot!). hee hee. The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. In his introductory remarks, he spoke of Marks kindness, humility, and genuine interest in people. he was chosen because the apostles couldnt be bothered by distributing food to widows) first martyr in church. He has not shown himself capable of being trusted with that sort of ministry in the first place. Mars Hill Church was ending its relationship to Agathos. It is identical to another certain entertainment industry where faking it means everything and in my opinion the industry representing the older profession is less offensive. And did he threaten to punch Pastor Lindell in the nose and throw him under the bus if he wasnt given the gig? The James River Church Joplin Campus, located at 1850 S Maiden Ln, Joplin, MO 64801 now has a permanent location! http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, A few items: A preacher is not to be- ", Meanwhile, here's what was communicated 'Down Under' "Houston, we have a problem.". Christian geneticist and U.S. National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins suggested most churches should postpone in-person services due to COVID-19 until at least summer 2021, when every American is expected to have had the opportunity to get vaccinated, The Christian Post recently reported. Like I said, I dont want to get into an argument here. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. If, as a teacher, you realise that you hate students, you must give up your job and find something else. Che Guevera was a die hard Communist who actively conspired with the Soviet Union to turn America into a long nuclear winter landscape that would put Winterfell to shame. Most people have more sunk into that cult than they do their homes. You can learn a lot about someones character from how they treat those who are below them in status. And of course JLindell can know that MD has NOT repented and sought reconciliation with those he threatened with breaking their nose, and then expelled and shunned. It didnt occur to me because I havent seen that modeled in a very long time. now it seems that it has just gone to big business making a dollar off of Jesus name and some easy to quote scriptures. It is all he knows, and Im sure he has bills to pay, and is used to a certain standard of living. "Homosexual sin is not the only serious sin. Interestingly, he chose the title of his message to be 'Paul the Forgiven' and goes on to say that Paul has a name change because of a life change. When he walked up to speak with me I politely told him neednt spend time with me because I lived about 4 hours away RT and, therefore, wouldnt be attending his church again. Barnabus is the hero of this story that gets little press. In his introductory remarks, he spoke of Marks kindness, humility. The authentic community I was referring to is the it term/concept in megas for 2015. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, and that other pastor has a history of patterns of behavior and teachings that are destructive it is wise to ask pastor 1 if he has checked him out before he promotes him. In the case of Chandler, the fudgy language in the apologies does not instill much confidence that the root has been exposed so that it can be dug out. This stuff was high on the why we are how we are list back in the day. Thanks for the link i want to read more of the writers work. . until he says otherwise what else can a person think? For all the lack of American Idol production values I learned more in that one day of teaching at that little church then I did in all the years I attended Gateway. And as long as they do, it will continue. Hi Nancy, I am a graduate from Sydney and I just want to say thank you so very much for making Mercy a possibility for girls like myself to be able to go to here in Australia, it has truly saved my life and given me a future. their ministry grew and even people that werent christians were thankful for them. I started to ask myself, If Christ is present in someones life, and therefore the Spirit, will not God, in his infinite power, begin to produce those things in that person? And I began to wonder if Mark Driscoll even possessed the Spirit of God. In February of 2007, Mark Driscoll preached a sermon that included raising funds for Agathos. Was Pastor Lindells statement just a slip or an attempt to rewrite history? I sometimes think the man has no friends, but if he does, they should help him now. He told me he will vote against repeal. In a March 15 sermon, Lindell urged congregants to repeal Springfield's sexual orientation and gender identity law on April 7. There has not been a frank identification of the flaw in the system that produced the horrific results. The prophets in that verse are likewise OT prophets and also refers only to physical harm. @ Gus: As a follow-up (Sydney Morning Herald 1 July 2015), Hillsong conference shows interview with controversial US Pastor, Mark Driscoll see link A lot of people will say, 'I got that. There could be some better teaching on this but too many appear to receive their teaching from celebrity pastors who then take advantage of them. Until Mark repents of his Peasant Princess series along with its cartoon, and his Esther series, and his man stay-at-home man fail rants, the only sermon I will listen to of his and his supporters is John 3:16. was an attention getter. Others obviously put a lot more emphasis on organizational structures, so they might see things differently. The SGM defenders used the no criminal charges aspect of innocence, too, when it came to CJ. He diverts attention from the real purpose, the Gospel, to himself. We know that Driscoll should never have been a pastor: lack of formal qualifications, lack of maturity in the faith (too young, and never been a member of a church before he started his own), lack of maturity in general; I am more interested in why the pew sitters fall for it and focusing there. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? It genuinely didnt occur to me that he was just a good, decent man who might care about Gods children regardless of their zip code. During those early years they had a great impact on hurting people and a great testimony of the work of the Lord in a group of people dedicated to doing whatever He led them to do. How can a reasonable person look past that? Those ones arent even on the path. But if I had trusted my gut at the time I would have admitted that staff viewing the members as guests is so far outside Body of Christ thinking it should not require an explanation. mark chose to step down not mark was removed. Not a fan but many are. pure grace are you or have been in similar situation to stephen? Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. Mot only do I think Driscoll is a wolf in sheeps clothing, but I think hes opportunistic, and because being a preacher is all he knows. @ Bridget: Hillsongsfounder, Brian Houston, released a statement saying he did not want the 30-minute interview with Driscoll to distract from the larger five-day conference. While a decreasing quota meant less pay. What I do really pray for is that the followers start questioning and thinking about what they support and find freedom in their own seeking of Christ instead of following a guru and his interpretations. I do not for one minute believe they are suddenly open. your post, and this one i read on facebook yesterday: I then stood up and pointed out that 30 lines below the famous quote All men are created equal the Declaration of Independence refers to Natives as merciless Indian savages. http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/. Sopy in prison. So Brian Houston lied and succeeded in ending the protests and the media scrutiny temporarily. Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. I hope you dont write off church altogether. IMO they are not qualified to interpret the Bible. it is so sad it breaks my heart. How they hold their hands, pat their hearts, stomp their feet, fall to their knees, wipe away fake tears, etc is all taught in classes. I read your comment and have thought about this a lot. ), Warren Throckmorton quickly put up a post on this development and featured the following video. I also told him that before I wrote this story, I transcribed his sermon. I dont think Christians have to throw out common sense/reason/logic. Yes he was forgiven, but be spent years away from his former life, maybe to relearn what Christ Jesus was about. Under the circumstances, Mark Driscoll needs a time out, huh? GW is also currently preaching John Hagees End Times Armageddon sermons to pump up the numbers, claiming the Rapture WILL take place prior to 12-31-18, in order to scare folks into those spontaneous tubs. How can a reasonable person look past that? I find it hard to believe he truly didnt know anything before last weekend! Under the circumstances, Mark Driscoll needs a time out, huh? LOL! One of six. Glassdoor provides our best prediction for total pay in today's job market, along with other types of pay like cash bonuses, stock bonuses, profit sharing, sales commissions, and tips. @ sam: Missouri church service Saturday evening. Christian institutions are trying to express an organic Jesus in non-organic structures. Restaurants and bars / taverns also use atmosphere teams. Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. We hunkered down and prepared ourselves for the impact of Mark Driscolls threat. . "It is possible for someone who has been a life-long alcoholic to stop. It is a winner! I think Dr Fundy left out the irony/sarcasm tags introduced with HTML 5.5. Watch LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm, and 7pm as well as every Wednesday at 7pm. @ numo: kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? Im not as strong or wise as Lydia, but I hope to provide valuable insights based on my experience so that those with eyes to see and ears to hear get out and get out quickly. Where are all the former higly paid speaking gigs that were constant and kept his calendar full with travel? It is definitely not where all leadership and vision is deferred to one man, and it is definitely not authoritarian. James River Church is located in the Springfield, MO! 1 point: homosexuality is a sin, according to the Bible, and Christians should vote for repeal. Its also called community in a box. this is even a bigger bad root than the bad root of complimentarianism and authorityism. So Mars Hillweve done this in the pastyou probably dont know thissome years ago you all purchased a large piece of land in India that now has on orphanage with 100 kids on it and you purchased the land. Youll notice the Pentecostals elevating him are in their 50s and 60s. He needs a revenue stream and using Jesus is all he knows. When that donor eventually supported our decision to leave peaceably, Jamie Munson was in a pickle. Lindell hit two main points: the Bible is clear in its condemnation of homosexuality as sin and the ordinance is an infringement on the religious rights of Christians who believe so. they may think i just sit around judging peoples apologies or repentance. Lindell then got personal with me. An IRS spokesman in St. Louis would not comment when asked if a pastor could speak from the pulpit to encourage congregants to vote a particular way on an issue. I dont believe the above because I am wondering how many more similar stories no matter how benign, there are. king does not stand up for you. In my opinion Gateway is a cult not a church so they lose their Winters Bone protection status. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. He lives in the Show Me State, so go ahead and show me. When and where did this start? Hospitable, Self-controlled, Holy, Disciplined, above reproach, Not quarrelsome, not violent but gentle. Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. He was a mass murdering thug. I am a current attender who was raised by people who love this church but I definitely have my confusions on a few things. GW also exports as they seemed to pioneer or at least perfect the concept of having pastors write books for personal profit then when the books sell too slowly, they have the main church and all their friend churches purchase the books in bulk to give away to the congregation resulting in transferring thousands of tithe dollars to individual pastors. But one morning as I sat at my desk in y basement office, I looked up at my little bulletin board. . But one morning as I sat at my desk in y basement office, I looked up at my little bulletin board. i was looking for my link to Rob Smiths orphanage and found that he has recently posted a great response to those propping up Mark Driscoll. Why would anyone seek to admire and celebrate a man who plotted to kill millions of innocent American civilians? Not that I dont admire Saul/Paul. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? CCHD has been in contact with the City of Ozark, where the venue is located and where there is a current masking ordinance in place. Unless of course, they give up the celebrity/money/position and go into obscurity getting real jobs. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Likewise, you cannot be or stay a pastor if you find out that you cant respect people. Thats why every post they make against corrupt churches matters. Forgiveness does not address that issue at all. Would you hire back the embezzler to count your cash drawer after he served a short sentence because you forgave him? I have learned much on this blog and often from your comments which are intelligent and insightful. pastors that use their position to wreck peoples lives arent expected to go to jail or show tears publicly and thats ok if its not warranted but it is very reasonable for people to see something, anything, that looks like actual remorse before they think its ok for them to go back to influencing the lives of people. 15 But the Lord said to Ananias, Go! May the Lord bless our search for da truth, and grant us mucho wisdom. James River Church(formerly, James River Assembly) is a Pentecostalmulti-sitemegachurchbased in Ozark, Missouri. (we want to prop mark up so he can do it himself), Mark says: Its much harder to leave that way. Going forward, we are committed to doing a better job of encouraging and maintaining the procedures necessary to keep people safe and secure, James River Church officials explained. Thanks for your informative comment. Mark Driscoll was totally missing those things. Its much harder to leave that way. I felt like an idiot after I said that. I couldnt get through Marks sermon.so what was coming up for me during Pastor Lindells introduction was the idea of the Karpman Drama Triangle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle (Persecutor/Rescuer/Victim roles that people bounce around in during unhealthy interactions.) now i am going to see if i can stand to listen to the whole mark speaks video. Is this similar to Radical Chic? And thus, I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. Did he have liveried Armorbearers blowing long trumpets before him to announce how HUMBLE(TM) he was (chuckle chuckle)? If the denominational system is rejected on doctrinal grounds, that only leaves the congregation. Well, Jesus, Stephen, Paul, and Mark Driscoll. Your mistake is in assuming that Driscoll was there to deliver a sermon. (if you heard anything on the internet its not true, mark scrubbed his site already so if its on the internet a bunch of liars wrote it) we dont want to shoot the wounded. I believe they were simply behaving as their normal selves. During this pandemic we have helped thousands of people with food, financial assistance, counsel, and spiritual encouragement. OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. shuning is not always done professionally as in TVC but so often done whisperingly in churches but the effect is the same to the person shunned. Maybe Driscoll feels a notch above Paul since hes not called for any ones death? His auto suggestive words were a dead give away! Applying this mode to spiritual abuse has gotten me thinking..and I wonder if in the future Mark will only hang around people/churches that are willing to stay on this Drama Triangle. But guess what else happened? Nancy, i think theres a lot of truth to what you say, and its more than posdible that people he was addressing in his letters knew at least something about that. And probably they wont. Thats exactly what I was thinking last weekend! My point with Che is to draw a parallel. He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. You would think that over a decade of Manly Man, sexist, dude-bro, preachers that people have had enough, the novelty has worn off, and theyre ready to get real about Church and the faith again? rather than come in glory he came in humility. Matthew 27:33-34 Bingo. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? Even if Houston hadnt properly researched before the demise of MH, surely he must have learned something to have made the decision to downgrade MD from speaker to interviewee. The financial aspects. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name., I dont think God has sent any dreams or visions to anyone vouching for Mark Driscoll? Photos show large crowds at Missouri's James River Church | The Kansas Treating the congregation as customers is pure evil, IMO. As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. He appealed that he had no say in the matter. The point of closed systems is to keep them closed. But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. A cynical, weary part of me says theyll never change. Even in the Roman Catholic Church, the obvious structure does not prevent sin or other problems, so I dont think it is a matter either of too much or not enough structure making us fall short of perfection. sam wrote: Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. The bathrooms were tiny and not particularly nice. We live in a youtube world where fun and funny trump all. James River Assembly hosted a Christmas pageant last December in the midst of the covid pandemic. It is deceiving men so they will be more inclined to pay those 500+ employees their hundred thousand dollar pay packages. James River Kids is the children's ministry of James River Church. Driscoll has used this vague parallels to himself many times, framing the sermon in the context of his own life with the lives of other noble characters, most notably Jesus. Many others voiced their concerns about the images coming out of the church over the weekend, including Springfield-Greene County Health Director Clay Goddard, who said he was shocked by what he saw considering Missouri currently has more than 328,000 cases of the virus and no less than 4,358 deaths since the pandemic began. I doubt he walked away broke. This is not a measure of faith. And the same shtitck but did not call them atmostphere teams but hosts. What I saw was the 2 verses that I had typed on a 35 card and tacked to my bulletin board. I think those that experience an event that is very bad or painful are often the lucky ones because you really cant second guess leaving. He had founded the church in 1996. I think it is perfectly ok to say some people are toxic and avoid them for safety and mental health reasons. Does it lie with Driscoll/Chandler or does it lie with the people whom they want to trust them? All you have to do is say some magic words and we end up being the mean ones if dare say we otherwise. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. think of him as he is pray to glorified jesusking of kings lord of lords worshiped by angels. stephen says Ive gotta find jesus on the worst most devasting difficult damaging day of my life I have to find jesus (more mark interpreting the bible for all of us non pastors, stephen already knew where Jesus was) and he sees jesus, what is jesus doing? However, we also see that David and Samuel were permitted to speak out publicly against Saul in truth. Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. You might be interested in this post from this recent post at Stand Firm, an Anglican blog, regarding Hillsong. His messages change in content, but not in root meaning. But I never want to deliberately post any false information so I do appreciate any corrections you can add. At a cash price of 2600 Denarii ($210,000 in Roman money) a book? Sometimes people get the idea that everybody needs some church-recognized ministry. At this point it seems to me that this would be the last thing that MD needed if he wants to get himself turned around. I think the guys a jerk and theres plenty of evidence out there for it. The City of Ozark has an established process in place to investigate, enforce, and educate violators of the ordinance, the department said before stating that it does not condone the flouting of health mandates. Imagine that. All he has to do is say "I repent" and it has to be forgiven and forgotten or we are the meanies. These churches are both responsible for vetting their speakers, and they utterly failed on this one. I would lay 50 to 1 odds that a change in MD will be announced and proved to be a change in words not a change in behavior! . Thank you again. I sincerely hope Mark Driscoll's remarks are about this specific passage and not about himself. if mark is not truly repentant, (which is totally conceivable since he has never apologized for anything except being too unkind in firing people and running people into the ground under his God given authority) then this could be compared, (by sin levelers who will be quick to show up here and defend him)this could be compared to Jordan Root getting right back in the mission field and preaching about what happens when women and heathens in the press persecute godly people accused of child porn addictions with no evidence. I just think that there is not much reason to listen to just his side of the story and think that is all there may be to it. The issue, however, is character, evidenced by a pattern of behavior reported with regard to bullying behavior, narcissitic traits, etc. How Much Does James River Church Pay in 2023? (26 Salaries)