14c28n steel vs d2 14c28n steel vs d2

Knifemakers use dozens of steel types to create knife blades. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. Working closely with our factory the heat treating of this steel has been perfected resulting in excellent performance for the price. Or even a 7 in both categories. If you want to learn more than keep reading past the ratings. You will get an ultra-sharp edge with 14C28N knives. Its possible that there are steel manufacturers with better processing which would lead to an even carbide distribution but I cant say that without seeing it for myself. If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. Its soft, with very low carbon content. There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. But it would be my recommendation for applications requiring extreme corrosion resistance. The best scenario is when the steel, heat treatment, and geometry are selected for the knife and the use. They are usually chosen for their looks rather than performance. CROMOVA 420HC doesnt hold an edge well, but its relatively stain-resistant and tough. 1. Anthony Sculimbrene authors the blog EverydayCommentary.com. I also have a video that summarizes some of the information below while also showing how some of the experiments work. it seems like all the pieces are in place to develop an algorithm for this. D2 steel offers better edge retention and wear resistance than 14C28N. Not as tough as the best carbon steels, it's tougher than most . Ease of Sharpening: One advantage of 8Cr13MoV is that it is easier to sharpen than D2 steel. Im going to give the ratings first and then give more explanation about how the ratings were created. Things are similar with resistance to chipping and edge deformation. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . A2 Knife Steel Air-hardened tool steel. https://cedric-ada-store.creator-spring.com/listing/brickard-heritage-collectionGood gravy its bricky on thingsSubscribe and hit the bell! Because of their good edge retention, these steels are quite versatile in folders and fixed blades. Although it should be noted that there doesnt seem to be a need for the stainlessness on a wood working tool. On the other hand, Speed safe assisted opening allows for easy blade deployment with the use of a simple pull back on the ambidextrous flipper. Below shows a comparison of carbide structure between D2 and CPM-D2, and then toughness measurements between the conventional and PM versions of CruWear, D2, and 154CM. In particular, I really care about the toughness / hardness part. 20? A few steels have been added since such as MagnaCut and M398. Steels that are improperly heat treated have excess retained austenite which makes them extremely difficult to deburr. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: what does a cvn of 40 v.s 20 mean? 14C28N steel is not very hard steel which makes it easier to sharpen. Steels like CPM MagnaCut, CPM M4, CPM 4V, and CPM CruWear fit in this category. Its called memory metal because heat can get it to revert back to a previous shape. I couldnt find much on 5160 steel and from a knife makers point of view if you are saying youre the preferred supplier of special ops than I dont understand this choice in knife steel. All rights reserved. Furthermore, because of its ultrahigh hardness, Maxamet is very prone to corrosion, probably worse than 1095. Diamond and CBN stones make sharpening those steels easier. Steels with very high vanadium content like Vanadis 8, CPM-10V, K390, CPM-15V, etc. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. I do not have rust issues with it (as long as I have a good finish) some heavy stonewashed finishes rust easier. Its exceedingly tough and relatively hard, but its not stainless. Stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion but remember that stainless steels stain less, and most of them will still rust in the right conditions. And before you start arguing on behalf of the steel you think might be perfect, let me remind you that if your knife isnt perfect for a task, youll need to get another one that is! It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Ive not seen these used on non-kitchen knives, though, and it seems that if they had real utility they would be used in other knives as well although perhaps on the thinner edges of kitchen knives they are more effective than they would be elsewhere? What about K390? This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. In reality hardly difference. For example, below is a video comparing a 1095 ESEE knife at 55-57 Rc and a MagnaCut knife at 62.5 Rc, both with the same edge angle. Hello everyone I've been loking into twosun knives recently. Im a woodworker and Im interested in making better performing plane irons and chisels. I was the heat treater, but after HT to only 58-59 hardness the blades went to the surface grinders for finishing and I remember them going into the packing boxes with mirror polished edges. I know that one does not normally make knife blades of titanium, but I gather that Ti is extremely corrosion resistant, used for saltwater applications, etc. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. The solid lockup and decent blade design make these two knives well suited for camping. Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. W-2 Knife Steel Benefiting from 0.2 percent vanadium content, W-2 holds an edge well and is reasonably tough. Not every wood is soft pine. The Vargo Sobata 398 is unlike any other knife on this list. Thanks to powder metallurgy, youll find even better edge retention on the high end. Why do knives make the best gifts? Heres The Best Review For You (2021), D2 knife blade offers high edge retention, Dulls faster, Requires frequent sharpening. Honestly, yes, because its perfect steel for your knife, besides it depends on which knife, so when youre talking about chef knives, then 14c28n would be an ideal pick thanks to professional corrosion resistance and edge retention. D2 steel is more durable than 14C28N, but it scores lower in terms of ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. Many steel ratings articles pay lip service to the importance of heat treatment without providing examples. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. For example, see the chart below for how much edge retention can change with edge geometry for a single steel (in this case 154CM and CPM-154). This steel, as the name implies has a professional styling to it. Very much appreciate you. and why would anyone want to use it when 420HC looks so much better for a simple stainless steel option. 14C28N vs D2: Overview 14C28N steel is a high-end stainless steel created by the Swedish company Sandvik. Display: 24 per page Sort by: Featured View CIVIVI Voltaic Flipper Knife Stainless Steel Handle With Micarta Inlay (3.48" 14C28N Blade) $88.30 Add to cart 14C28N Leek: D2 Leek: jonnymac44 Joined Sep 27, 2007 Messages 7,674 Oct 21, 2008 #2 Hey Michael, First off, the new 14C28N from Sandvik is just now hitting the streets, and I don't have any results just yet for you. Theres a green triangle at about RC 60.5 and toughness over 40. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. INFI is also quite hard and sharpens easily. There are also hardness/toughness and hardness/TCC charts.but no tables backing this charts. Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. I did a large study of different knives with identical sharpening and edge geometry. 440A has more chromium in solution along with a small addition of Mo, but has significant amounts of carbide so the two are an interesting comparison. Ah ok that wasnt mentioned. S35VN AEB-L is rarely found on production knives but can be found on custom knives easily. Also, if you want a fishing knife, 14c28n steel will survive better in wet areas than D2. D2 steel is a ordinary tool steel and knife steel. Contact me if you have any questions or input! Oh, thats great, thanks. So you can estimate how much a change in hardness would affect edge retention by following the slope of those lines. Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. This is also a powder-metal steel produced by American steel company Crucible. In fact Id be delighted to have your experience checking my thinking! D2 is a high carbon, high chromium die steel and is the highest carbon alloy tool and die steel typically used in knife making. Elmax But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. As of November 2020, this is Spyderco-exclusive steel. This is a non-powder Japanese steel used primarily in Spyderco knives. Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. 14C28N. Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. As a result, there are no production knives with REX 121 steel, though Ferrum Forge used the steel early on in its custom knives and a Kickstarter knife from the Creely Brothers. VG-1 is a non-powder steel made by Japanese specialty steelmaker Takefu. Even premium steels can have poor performance with poor heat treatment. While 9Cr18MoV steel is highly corrosion resistant due to the addition of Cr, and Mo. There is no single category that means that a steel is more premium or better than another. This is an American-made powder steel. The most traditional models of pocket knives have different parts, such as the handle and cutting performance. Should have a first draft by the end of next week. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. When it comes to handle material, both knives have options available in either plastic or metal. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. Available in Kershaw knives (as of 2012) and in other . What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? Vancron would work well in a kitchen knife. There are still a few things I dont know but we have enough information to make educated guesses where data isnt available. in relation to hardness). Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. If thats true why do you include it in the stainless steel category? I would also suggest adding a hardness rating to the ratings tables that currently include toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance ratings. LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. . Is that regression line (or other trend line?) This makes it a great choice if you don't have . https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/03/cryogenic-part1/ 14c28n steel would be a great pick thanks to its high retention and corrosion, it would be great for a normal EDC knife. A Japanese powder steel, ZDP-189 is essentially the polar opposite of 3V its uber-hard instead of uber-tough. Great for tensile strength and Edge retention. Spyderco announced Native 5 Salt with magnacut, but I saw test of magnacut with salt water and it grows corrosionso Salt with magnacut could be a flop. Its in the same class as Vanadis 8 and 10V. Jeff I worked at a company that heat treated D2 (1.55% C) planer blades for a company that built wood working equipment for commercial shops. Due to its higher Chromium content, S30v is a lot less likely to corrode/rust than the D2 Steel. 1095. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. Therefore powder metallurgy is not necessary for certain steels, or could even be slightly detrimental. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. Manage Settings VG-10 steel also has the same level of toughness as 14C28N and the same level of corrosion resistance. However, it falls behind the Bohler steel in corrosion resistance. Both knives come at an affordable price for high-end knives. Lets talk about the clip-on pocket knife. 14C28N steel, also known as Sandvik 14C28N, is stainless steel made by Sandvik, a European steel company in Sweden. The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). I personally don`t care about stainless (sic! Different heat treats have emerged over the years, but one has risen to the top as the best:Bob Doziers D2. It should get an ultra-sharp edge for easy cutting, hold the edge for long for easy maintenance, and have a sturdy and ergonomic handle for comfort and to prevent accidents. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. There are so many interactions between them that predictions are difficult without modeling software. There is no such thing as a steel that is a 10 in both toughness and edge retention. show very different and even inversed behaviour (e.g. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. This is a powder-metal steel also produced by Crucible. It had better than expected corrosion resistance due to the lack of chromium carbides, a behavior also seen in MagnaCut. It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. Sorry, most of my previous comment was borderline word salad. The line is only in the neighborhood of 5 of the datapoints. The hardenable grade of titanium (Beta C Titanium) reaches up to 45 or so rc. In this article, we will discuss the characteristics, pros, cons, and differences between 14C28N and D2 knives to help to make the right choice. Even people that are aware of your work still do knife rankings and pass them off as steel rankings. Softer steel usually forms larger burrs and they are more difficult to deburr. 14C28N knife will dull faster, but it is easy to sharpen. Having 1.5% Carbon does that. In that case the difficulty in sharpening would be the inverse of the edge retention rating. Coarse-carbide tool steel grades. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. Read more. 14C28N 1. 14c28n vs. D2 Steel D2 is as rigid as 14c28n, thus has almost equal edge retention abilities. 14C28N is stainless steel, and its knives offer excellent rust resistance and toughness than D2 steel. Moreover, the blades will serve you longer because they do not wear out faster with frequent use and sharpening. LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. I think this website is aimed at dispelling these kinds of assertions. It can build a knife that sustains a sharp cutting edge for long periods and is sufficiently wear-resistant. This steel is quite corrosion resistant and sharpens easily. I am particularly interested in researching knife steel, knife properties, and brands. and our AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. 14C28N knives offer better toughness than D2 knives. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. Stainless steels are another subset of high alloy tool steels that have enough chromium in them to have stainless levels of corrosion resistance. Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? M390 For more information see our. I forgot, I got the higher carbon steels will have higher edge retention from this website. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. Let's compare 14c28n steel with other steels, and for this, I use four criteria; Edge Retention, Corrosion resistance, Ease of Sharpness, and Toughness and on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the highest) let's see the performance of each steel. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Socould you please clarify which steel is the outlier and which is the line>. You can read about my CATRA edge retention testing in this article. Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. Approximately the same hardness, yes. CPM-S90V is my favorite in the high edge retention category because of its decent toughness. For this perfect size that for most tasks and the slim tip allows the knife to excel at piercing and detail work. I always thought VG10 to be way more chippy/less tough compared cpms45vn. Vanax gives up some toughness and hardness vs MagnaCut for saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. 420 Simple, non-stainless steels of medium carbon content like 5160 also boast high toughness. 9Cr is the top end of the series and is quite good as good or better than AUS-8. The D2 knife blade offers high edge retention and wear resistance. 12C27 But Ive found it lacking in hardness, even when compared to cheaper steels like AUS-8. D2 steel This is a virtually stain-proof steel suitable for all sorts of aquatic environments. If you look at the chart you may notice that at high toughness levels if you increase edge retention by only a relatively small amount you get very big drops in toughness. The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. The brand designed it as a carbide replacement. Its high hardness and relatively high toughness also make it an excellent choice in cutlery. This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. I would like to see the rating and performance on test of the Chinese Steels, that some people use to say its cheap garbage, like 3Cr13MoV, 4Cr13, 4Cr13Mo, 4Cr14MoV, 5Cr15MoV, 6Cr13MoV, 7Cr17MoV, 8Cr13MoV, 9Cr13MoVCo, 9Cr18MoV, 9Cr19MoV, and the 14cr14MovNB to see if they are similar, worse or better than the steels that they copyi believe we gonna have some good unexpected results. Using controlled furnace heat treating resulted in toughness around 23-28 ft-lbs at 61-62 Rc, while the knifemaker heat treated specimens were 7 ft-lbs or below. also the angle is by far the most important factor in catra testing, so such results might be irrelevant. ApexUltra is a steel that we are working on that had excellent properties in small batch production (50 lbs). It is most useful for steels with large amounts of carbide but also helps to be able to add certain carbide types. Developed by New Jersey Steel Baron, Nitro V is a non-powder steel marketed as an enhanced version of AEB-L. Nitro V, as its name indicates, adds nitrogen to AEB-Ls formula to make the steel even more corrosion-resistant. These steels are perfect for thin edges and high hardness. It has enough water-fighting properties that it can be used in marine environments. Must-Have Bowie Knives for Your Collection, What is Micarta and What Makes It a Great Knife Handle, Top 8 Reasons Why Knives Make the Best Gifts, Pocket Clips: Carry Safely and Comfortably, Make a Knife Your Own with Accessories & Customization. S110V has improved corrosion resistance at the cost of some toughness compared to S90V. On the other hand small but mighty, the pocket knife provides both in professional performance and in arresting good looks. A mirror finish is the best at resisting corrosion and a rough finish means rust and corrosion is more likely. My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. Micarta Its very corrosion-resistant and quite tough. Required fields are marked *. Any thoughts how Sleipner might fare in the ratings? Being stainless is not an on or off property, and some stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion than others. D2 steel is high carbon steel with no extra addition of Cr or Mo, that's why it is prone to corrosion. These steels are typically used by forging bladesmiths, traditional folders, and some production fixed blades. This guide explains important features to consider when buying a new knife for the outdoors. The knife does dull faster. That provides 14% Chromium and offers excellent corrosion resistance. Because of its abrasion-eating hardness, knives with REX 121 come at an exceptionally high price. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? 52100 and CruForgeV are good for general purpose knives. Its not a regression line, it is just a line through the best steels. Give it a couple of weeks, and feedback will start pouring in. AR-RPM9 Pretty interesting that regrinding a knife you already have can seemingly take its performance to that of significantly better steels. The edge retention and ease of sharpening have been what we expect with D2. Vanadium carbides are very large with conventional production of steels but are very small with powder metallurgy. G10 And below shows a chart of carbide hardness, the equation we created to predict edge retention based on edge angle, hardness, and carbide volumes, and then the chart showing the good correlation: TCC (mm) = -157 + 15.8*Hardness (Rc) 17.8*EdgeAngle() + 11.2*CrC(%) + 14.6*CrVC(%) + 26.2*MC(%) + 9.5*M6C(%) + 20.9*MN(%) + 19.4*CrN(%). On the other hand, edge stability in terms of micro chipping and edge folding is also good. as you mentioned catra indicates the edge angle as being by far the most important variable. Spyderco offers this as the high-end steel for many of its evergreen blades, like the Paramilitary 2, Paramilitary 3, Manix 2, and Native 5. I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. Combination of knife steel properties. I like it in the Seki City Spydercos, but I would like to know what ratings you would give it.