6l80 vs 10l80 transmission 6l80 vs 10l80 transmission

Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. The TCM is actually even programmed to adjust its operation for transmission clutch wear. 4. Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. We Specialize In: GM LS Conversions Engine & Trans Combo Kits Unique Ready to Run Engines Have a question? A sectioned image of the 4L60-E TMBX and 6L80, 6L90 JMBX (Figure 3) shows the external profiles of the respective front covers are very similar. The overdrive ratio thats added is 0.75:1. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. Conceptually, locking the converter should help the mph trap speed by reducing slippage. A typical scene thats now playing out in transmission shops across the country goes something like this: A late-model, full-size truck or SUV is dropped off to get the transmission checked out. Autostart / Autostop function disabled (if equipped), Transmission Adaptive Pressure Control and adaptive shift values Frozen, High line pressure (harsh shifts and engagements). Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. August 8, 2022. Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . So if there are any possible ways to upgrade the RPM Level 6 4L70E in my 416 CI Trailblazer, the 4L80E in my Silverado with a LS2 with heavily worked and milled 243s, Ported and polished Fast LSXRT 102mm intake, and the Caprice PPV I am looking for the right one. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A Stuck On. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. All Rights Reserved. GM has been useless to say the least, and waited me out (now off warranty). TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. If there are worn valves or faulty inputs or controls, its easy to see how the clutch could start to shudder and quickly fail. Thought's? The stator shaft support housing is fitted with a converter drive gear and idler gear. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. The 6L90 transmission is slightly longer and taller than a comparable configuration 6L80 due to its beefier internals. Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. Specifications The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. I believe the last digits of the model number are the power rating capabilities of the transmission. All previous GM automatic transmissions were virtually all based on hydraulic controls, and received increasing electrical elements as they modernized. Chevrolet, Buick & GM Engines into the Jeep Ford 1.8L - 2.5L "Pinto" Engines into the Jeep 4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants). Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. And Sonnax doesnt even offer a forged clutch piston for the TMBX there just isnt any demand for one. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. When its enabled at low speeds the exhaust tone becomes muffled, the AFM valves clatter open and closed, v4 vibration and increased injector noise is nothing but annoying, especially with a convertible. 3) 6L80E with fixed output flange is about 2 1/2" shorter than 4L60E and about 3 1/2" shorter than 200-4R. The case is a cast aluminum alloy. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. Note, all models will have a warmer. I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. * EXCELLENT FOR VEHICLES THAT ARE EQUIPPED WITH ENGINES PRODUCING UP TO 650 FT LBS OF TORQUE. Put simply, its the converter. Exceptional torque rating. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. A second electric 10L80 pump maintains fluid pressure when the stop/start function activates. Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. (incl. Unlike the 4L60E and 4L80E, the 6L80 is not always referred to as with the E on the end because its been over 25 years since the last non electronic GM transmission has been in production. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, 32-bit computer integrated into the valve body of the 6L80 / 6L90 and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. With a dry weight of approximately 230 lbs, its also very light considering the complexity. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. But it does take a bit of experience to not damage anything on the valve body or inside the . You can scribe numbers on them from 1-6 if you choose for a quick reminder of their location. From the workshop on ongoing projects and more, and where the new images are added afterwards. This is an immediate DTC that effects emissions. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. Now, the high-speed CAN network allows a high rate of data sharing between the units to achieve a collaboration between both engine and transmission functions. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 Then to create a new Second gear, the overdrive is engaged 2.97 x 0.75 = 2.23:1. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. Running 12.60s at 111 is a fun ride! But in order to make this work properly, they began by making the overall First gear ratio deeper. Engine torque estimate: Directly affects shift pressure control, TCC control, and transmission diagnostics. Based around the 4L80E (and fitting wherever a 4L80E will fit), the 6X is a true six-speed transmission that TCI rates at 850-plus horsepower. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. Developed with upgraded internal components, Chevrolet Performance's SuperMatic 6L80-E 6-speed automatic transmission offers an exceptional torque rating of 650 lb.-ft. - a 45 percent increase over regular production versions of the 6-speed automatic. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. The customer approves a teardown. I would be willing to get it rebuilt, but want it to function like it should (not back to the way it came from GM). The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. Comes with a complete harness and the necessary software to program the TCM-2650 Module. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that we're closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. Learn how your comment data is processed. Subscribe Now It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . The 6L80 transmission pan is similar in shape but the 6L80 is shorter at 17 1/2 inches. ! 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. But keeping the engine in its ideal RPM range allows the 10L80 transmission to operate with nearly the efficiency of a CVT transmission. And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. 6L80/6L90/8L90/10L90 AN Transmission Cooler Manifold Our Price: $150.00 Out of stock We now offer a convenient AN trans cooler manifold solution for the 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, and 10L90 transmission. Is the out put shaft and splines on a 4L80E the same as a turbo 400? This idler gear and ball bearing assembly is mounted to the stator shaft support housing. Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. Hi Jeff, I have a 2016 Silverado with the 5.3 and the 8 speed transmission. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. Sixth 1.28 For now, the bulk of reported cases are related to diesel vehicles. lbs., with a respectable GVW of 15,000 lbs. At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. The 6L80 was, from the ground up, developed as an electric over hydraulic transmission with microprocessor control. After programming, perform the Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle and reevaluate the vehicle. All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. We are High Performance Transmission Builders Concerns can range from any of the following: These drivability concerns can be mistaken for transmission malfunctions. If thats the case, the valve body will have to be replaced to correct these concerns. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. Special tools are often needed when diagnosing transmission problems and overhauling units. It appears that GM has put a very minor taper into the cover and possibly the piston as well. Gilbert, These concerns may be caused by a sticking TCC Regulator Valve (Figure 5). But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. Transmission Report: 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild. Application RWD & 4WD / AWD The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. This transmission is out of a Tur. Drivability concerns are confirmed, and the pan is chock full of debris. Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. Weight 230+ lbs (weight varies depending on application) You will need to ship your transmission to us for the rebuild. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. It's meant to be used with rear-wheel drive and it requires 8.4 quarts of fluid. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. lost energy) are reduced by only having two of the six clutches open at any time. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. Your car is quick! So is the 10L90 entirely different or does it just have stronger parts? Always inspect the sump for possible evidence of debris that could indicate the pump drive gears could be failing. Case 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". For instance, transmission techs with any time under their belts can tell you all about 3-4 clutch failure in GM 4L60-Es, intermediate stub shaft failure in Ford 4R70Ws and solenoid issues in Aisin AW 55-50s. This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. The following drivability conditions will be present when this type of DTC is stored. Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. For both types A and B, a freeze-frame record will be stored in memory if the MIL illuminates. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. Some Tahoe and Yukon HD 6.0L, not hybrid, may also have this transmission but most have 6L80 or a 10 speed 10L80. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. As a transmission rebuilder, you know that flatness and rigidity of both apply and reaction surfaces are key to long clutch life in transmission clutch packs its the exact same in the torque converter. When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. This is a normal and desired behavior. By combining a wide 7.39 overall gear ratio spread, with smaller steps between each gear, this GM 10-speed automatic transmission is able to keep the engine in its ideal power band during acceleration. It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. check the starter bendix and see if its loose and bouncing off the flywheel. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. Shift the transmission to Neutral. Find Dealer. Newer to the transmission world is its use of direct clutch-to-clutch shifting and the total lack of bands. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. Indirectly affects shift pressure control. Like most GM automatic transmissions, the easiest way to tell them apart is by using the pan gasket. Remember, this is just a theory. There may or may not be codes associated with these complaints. Developing any new technology will cost an absolute ton of money, which why its not unusual for car companies to co-develop things like chassis and transmissions. Reactions: me32. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). Engine torque rating increases minimally, but the output torque rating of the transmission jumps up by nearly 220 ft. lbs. They all look really similar, so make sure that you bother to count the pan gasket bolts, especially if you have an untrained eye. This drives up the price of the rebuilt converter, but ensures that this kind of failure wont happen again. Maximum shift speed is 6500 RPM. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. Click Here to Email our Sales & Tech Staff 888-748-4655 Local: 330-965-7146 International: 001-330-652-5855 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST Sat-Sun: Closed The ball bearing remained tight on the stator shaft support housing. The location of the warmer and the routing of the hoses can vary widely. The traditional small-block six-bolt bellhousing pattern is the best and easiest way to identify a 4L60E style transmission if you find one at the swap meet for sale. Beginning with the F-150, it then made its way into the Mustang and the Expedition (as well as the Everest, and upcoming Ranger reboot). In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. The 10L80 was a joint engineering effort between GM and Ford. Ford considers this to be a normal condition! Become a 6L80-E and 6L90-E expert now! A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. Comparing the two cross sections, you also quickly see that the orientation of the spring dampers is different. And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case). Joined Feb 11, 2007 Messages 11 Location . Repeat Steps 3 through 9 six (6) additional times. A JMBX torque converter rebuilt with a Sonnax forged cover and piston has proven to be a successful recipe for a long-lasting unit, preventing this typical pattern failure. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. The readers on this site are a pretty sharp bunch. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. RECALLS! The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. It is a 5 position shifter, Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and Sport Mode. Gears Magazine So, what's the unique problem with the 6L80, 6L90 converter found in full-size vehicles? None of the above categories describe me. The factory 4L80Eand the stronger 4L85is essentially a traditional TH-400 three-speed automatic equipped with a fourth, overdrive gear. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. Most of us have either seen or heard of the new 10-speed transmission Ford is offing behind the 2.3L EcoBoost, 2.7L V6, 3.5L EcoBoost, 5.0L gas, and 3.0L Power Stroke Diesel engines. only) '72-'79, Small Block V8, Gen. Would love your thoughts, please comment. All of the 1998-up cases used behind the LS family of engines used the separate bellhousing style of case. The HydraMatic can be adapted to the popular Jeep transfer cases, including the: Essentially all factory GM 4wd applications available with an OEM configured 6L80 have adapters and transfer cases that are prohibitively long for a Jeep, and transfer cases whose sizes and gearing fall short of desirable for most Jeep applications. While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. While converter failures are not uncommon with other transmission families, you are thinking that this is really becoming a pattern for the 6L80, 6L90. I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. The 6L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80.