when did klopp win his first liverpool trophy when did klopp win his first liverpool trophy

At this time, while he was courted by Liverpool and in his first few seasons in England, the media both English and German questioned Klopp for his record in silverware matches, causing him to quip in 2019, "I am probably at the moment a world-record holder, in the last seven years at least, in winning semifinals. The Telegraph values your comments but kindly requests all posts are on topic, constructive and respectful. Dortmund were put to the test on Matchday 10, when two young coaches - nowadays seen as among the best in the world - met in Mainz. Klopp also won the DFL Supercup on two occasions in 2013 and 2014. 3 minutes ago. A smile for all occasions, and a smirk for even the most awkward of them. Klopp finally helped end the clubs 30-year wait for a league title in 2020 as the Reds followed up their 2019 UEFA Champions League success with a long-awaited Thiago Silva then cleared one off the line from Mohamed Salah before Liverpool were denied by the most wafer thin of offside calls on Virgil van Dijk after Joel Matip had headed home from about a yard out. Can Niclas Fllkrug give Bremen back-to-back wins on Saturday and end Augsburg's 100 percent home record in 2023? Optimism is one of the most precious commodities to be in possession of as a football fan and those who follow the Reds have industrial quantities of the stuff right now. Exhilarating knockout ties with Manchester City and Roma failed to halt their momentum until Real Madrid capitalised on a number of Liverpool mistakes to triumph 3-1 in the 2018 final in Kiev, marking the second Champions League final defeat of Klopps career. Jrgen Klopp got so caught up in Borussia Dortmund's celebrations after the win over Bayern Munich in February 2011 that his glasses were broken. 01 Mar 2023 10:50:57 As Andrew Robertson put it after that win over Burnley in August 2019: People will say there are better strikers, but what he does is so important to our team. WebJurgen Klopp has lost six consecutive finals as a manager, but he wasn't going to let the haters stop him believing in his group of players. Looking directly at camera, Roberto Firmino stops, blows out his cheeks, smirks, then smirks again. Paul Ellis/Agence France-Presse Getty Images. The story of the campaign was undoubtedly Dortmund, however, who won the league by seven points from Leverkusen and finished 10 points ahead of Bayern in third. In football you need emotions but you need all your other skills as well. Before a 30-year wait for the league title ended Contents show 1 How long did it take Klopp to win his first Liverpool trophy? Watch Now https://t.co/hkoevnV6B4 pic.twitter.com/0ENfF5wj31. Munich scored two goals in extra time, as Bayern (and Robben) had the last laugh again. The Brazil international has been a key player for the Merseyside outfit ever since. The Reds boss said: "First of all, its difficult - pretty much impossible - to be happy about something at Man Utd when you are the Liverpool manager for seven-and-a With our sport packages offering BT Sport, the NOW Sky Sports Membership and Prime Video, you won't miss a second of the live action. Childhood Dortmund fan Grokreutz was the unlikely hero, as the hard-running midfielder playing for his local club got the first two goals in a 3-1 success. Sports Brief also reported on Klopp admitting Liverpool misses Mane, saying the Senegalese's departure has opened a void in the team's front three. From 29th March 2023, FlashSport will not be available. There always seemed a sense of inevitability around Jurgen Klopps appointment as Liverpool manager. Roberto Firmino is currently in the last year of his contract at Anfield. He won all possible trophies, including the UEFA Champions League and Liverpool's first Premier League title in 30 years. A Lionel Messi masterclass at the Nou Camp had handed semi-final opponents Barcelona a commanding first leg lead as they arrived on Merseyside up 3-0 in the tie. Klopp had, for Against the backdrop of securing their best ever Premier League points tally, 97, Liverpool were unlucky to come up against Pep Guardiolas rampant Manchester City in the league to prevent them from securing an incredible double. The Brazil international has been a key player for the Merseyside outfit ever since. But then came Liverpools trip to Manchester City in late November 2015. Klopp had flashed a familiar grin at his unveiling, saying that his job was to get the 1997 European champions "back on the right track again.". The Royal Blues did end up reaching the semi-finals of the Champions League and winning the DFB Cup, but they finished 14th the league. In Klopp's final season at Dortmund, he fell short in the DFL-Pokal final once again, this time to VfL Wolfsburg. Salah, Mane, and Firmino formed a devastating front three, but the Egyptian is the only regular left among them to departure and injury respectively. Regardless, the signs of progress were there for all to see as Klopp penned a six-year contract extension ahead of his first full season in charge. Rashford scored Manchester United's second in their win over Newcastle United at Wembley as Erik ten Hag led the Old Trafford club to their first trophy since 2017. Jrgen Klopp has the moves! I said, We have to play without two of the best strikers in the world. A young, new-look Borussia Dortmund quickly began to bond into an unstoppable Bundesliga team. Now I have to deal with 33, 34-year-old players and also 16, 17-year-old players in the same squad. Three reasons to watch Man City vs Newcastle - live on BT Sport! I became a manager when I was 33 and I had two players older than me in my team. Your login session has expired. Follow Sports Brief on Twitter for more trending and breaking news! Friends off the pitch, Thomas Tuchel (l.) and Jrgen Klopp (r.) went head-to-head with Mainz and Borussia Dortmund at the top of the table in 2010/11. Guided by Thomas Tuchel (37) and spurred on by Andre Schrrle (19), Lewis Holtby (20) and Adam Szalai (22), the plucky 05ers held a three-point advantage over second-placed Dortmund. The Spanish side won their third straight title as an early Daniel Sturridge beauty was cancelled out by three second-half Sevilla goals. He knows all about perches. The AFCON winner's confidence is showing early signs of being right. With the like of Mario Gomez, Thomas Mller, Franck Ribery and Arjen Robben in their ranks, the champions had a surplus of attacking talent. Because for them he has not just been a brilliantly influential part of the Jrgen Klopp era but, more than any other player, encapsulated the sheer joy of it, too. Kagawa got his first Bundesliga goal against the Wolves, and the bargain signing became a firm fan's favourite thanks to his double in the 3-1 derby win at Schalke on Matchday 4. Klopp, quite rightly, will not concern himself with those thoughts just yet, but there is no harm in fans taking the opposite approach. Klopp previews Liverpool's Premier League clash with Man Utd and has won every trophy going under the Firmino is far from the first member of Liverpool's Having lost their first three matches, for example, Stuttgart beat Borussia Mnchengladbach 7-0 in their fourth. The Reds have collected 10 points from their last four Premier League matches and will seek to extend that positive run when they face their rivals this weekend. Gtze added a third in the space of six devastating second-half minutes. Please review our, You need to be a subscriber to join the conversation. Those words suggest that there is a determination within the squad to transition from a team who scaled the highest peaks only briefly to one that is widely respected as a dynasty. Supporters, however, do not have to be bound by that same mentality - they should dare to dream. The Brazil international, like many of his team-mates, has struggled this season and that has contributed to some of the Reds' defensive issues as the holding role has become something of a revolving door with different options tried in an attempt to find a solution. Their greatest ever manager never did and Ten Hag has smartly plugged into that. This competition started, unashamedly, as the lowest priority when the action got underway way back in September, and while this record-setting triumph now takes them one clear of Manchester City, the club's ninth League Cup may yet be remembered in the wider context of a far, far grander achievement. The Reds have struggled to repeat last season's form, though, and are playing catch-up in the top four race ahead of their weekend clash with Erik ten Hag's Man Utd. But if I wrote a book about that probably nobody would buy it.". From that success, the Reds earned the right to face Chelsea in the UEFA Super Cup final and they won it on penalties. "They have turned into a results machine. On Matchday 7 they underlined their title credentials as Barrios and Sahin condemned Bayern to a second successive defeat, leaving the champions in 12th after scoring just five goals all season. Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp said he was "overwhelmed" and saw his players in tears after they completed the biggest Champions League semi-final comeback to beat Barcelona 4-3 on aggregate. Kepa's would be the kick that decided it all; Liverpool won on penalties 11-10. Liverpool have never won the League Cup, FA Cup, the domestic title and European Cup in the same year, but having seen off Chelsea here at Wembley, that gigantic, almost laughably impossible task now stands in front of them, within the grasp of the best collection of footballers in decades on Merseyside. Klopp has strengthened his front-line this season, adding Darwin Nunez over the summer and bringing in Cody Gakpo at the start of the January window. WebLiverpool career. United have won the first three and if they triumph at Anfield, for the first time since 2016, which was soon after Klopp took over, it will feel even more significant as well as suggest they might actually still be in the title race. Liverpool and Brazil forward Roberto Firmino is set to leave Anfield when his contract expires at the end of the season, after spending eight years in English football. The Reds could not find a way past goalkeeper Thibaut Courtois, who was the undisputed man of the match. Undeterred, Liverpool promptly returned to the tournament finale the following season, pulling off arguably the most remarkable comeback in Champions League history along the way. Roberto Firmino made sure to inform Jurgen Klopp personally when it came to his Liverpool exit, it has been claimed. The German manager hasn't had it all his own way in finals however, as once upon a time there was even talk of the 'Klopp Curse,' but his success with Liverpool has helped to move away from such labels. He embraced Ferguson at Wembley last Sunday after winning his first trophy: the Carabao Cup. Dutch striker Ruud van Nistelrooy had arrived at Hamburg, while former England boss Steve McClaren took over at 2008/09 champions Wolfsburg. But because its you? Paraguayan forward Lucas Barrios had netted 19 league goals in the 2009/10 campaign, but in the summer of 2010 Dortmund added what would prove to be the final pieces of the jigsaw. Quite simply the trio were made for each other and over the course of five years established themselves as one of the most aggressive, thrilling and decisive attacking units European football has ever seen. The former Southampton forward missed the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar due to a leg injury he suffered a few days before the tournament and only returned to action at the weekend after coming off the bench against Union Berlin. But when Liverpool came calling less than five months later, the allure proved too difficult to turn down. Klopp reached the first cup final of his WebJurgen Klopp close to unleashing 4.5m Liverpool and FSG plan thats been six months in making. James Milner has been an incredibly important player for Liverpool since Jurgen Klopp's arrival at Anfield. I don't think so. Ottmar Hitzfeld, who led a more experienced Dortmund side to their first Bundesliga title in 1995 and European Cup glory two years later, said a clutch of young and hungry players had been vital to Dortmunds high-tempo style. Although the club won't be making any finals in 2022-23 barring a shocking comeback in the Champions League, the Reds made it to three finals in 2021-22 alone. Liverpool Manager Jrgen Klopp won his first Champions League title after two earlier defeats. With the support of Borussia Dortmund's famous Yellow Wall behind them, Jrgen Klopp's side played like they were unbeatable. It was his trophy as a coach. Jurgen Klopp registered his 200th win as Liverpool manager with the sensational 5-0 victory over Manchester United on Sunday. Liverpool was the biggest, greatest, most successful time of my life together with the manager, together with my colleagues, together with all of them. [. For the 2010/11 Bundesliga season, current Liverpool boss Jrgen Klopp moulded a spectacular young Borussia Dortmund side to dethrone Bayern Munich. Jurgen Klopps side suffered a humbling 5-2 defeat to Real Madrid in the Champions League last month and Merson reckons Liverpool could play right into Uniteds hands on Sunday. Klopp is quick to talk down his own influence in shaping the psychology of his team but at almost every opportunity, the German urges them to embrace challenge, to strive for constant improvement and to disregard their fear of failure. Klopp signed Mohamed Salah from AS Roma during the summer transfer window of 2017. I always did that with my players as well. CUP FINAL MAP: Show your support and tell us where you watched the win over Chelsea. But do not under-estimate the importance to United of finishing ahead of Liverpool. "In this year of the first title, he was a locomotive who gave the power to the rest," Watzke told Sky Sports in 2019. He has played 346 games under Jurgen Klopp, registering 107 goals and 78 assists in the process. "I think that an exciting period is going to start now," he said. The world outside is saying it is not possible. ", 'Stunning' former rectory transformed into modern 1m home, The house dates back to 1880 and includes a lot of period features, Family wrongly kicked out of Mother Goose panto give their review, John's wife was "in tears" as they were escorted out of the auditorium by staff and security, Schoolboy has 'little time left' after mum noticed 'lopsided smile', "There was no longer a cure they could offer him and time was very limited. Despite his successes as a manager, Klopp has had to deal with the heartbreak of losing six finals between 2013 and 2018 and once again to Real Madrid in the 2022 Champions League final. Hell soon be gone but its fair to say Liverpool will never forget Bobby. Klopp's team won 23 and lost only five of their 34 matches, and boasted the best defence with just 22 goals conceded. Klopp helped bring Liverpool two trophies that the club had never previously secured. We look back at Klopp's illustrious career and his record in finals both good and bad as we analyze a managerial career full of ups and downs. In his own unique way, Firmino has done the same. Hummels - an elegant defender alongside the more robust Subotic - later said that Klopp had introduced both a system that worked and a desire to "give it everything and go the extra yard.". A glorious player for a glorious period in Liverpools history and, as such, its somewhat bewildering to remember just how badly it started for Firmino after his arrival from Hoffenheim for 29m in June 2015. Having returned from three months out last weekend, what role will Sadio Mane play when Bayern visit Stuttgart? He took charge at Liverpool in October 2015. "Now I have really, really young players. Klopp was voted England's best manager twice since arriving at Liverpool in 2015. After the 2-0 win over Wolverhampton last night, Liverpool are just six points behind Tottenham Hotspur, who have played a game more and sit fourth. - imago images bundesliga Jrgen Klopp's first trophy: how Borussia Dortmund won the 2010/11 Bundesliga 2 years ago For the 2010/11 "Social media came in, players are much more in-demand with television, newspapers, everything. WebAnswer (1 of 3): I would say with much conviction that yes, he has been a successful manager at Liverpool. Hummels, meanwhile, described being "covered in goosebumps from top to bottom" in the final quarter of the game. Under first Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and then interim Ralf Rangnick they looked so far behind Liverpool it was impossible to imagine the swing that has taken place since then. Lukasz Piszczek, a full-back and former winger, joined from relegated Hertha Berlin, while an unheralded attacking midfielder, Shinji Kagawa, signed after starring for Japanese second-tier side Cerezo Osaka. In 2021-22 Klopp picked up his 11th and 12th trophies with the penalty-kick shootout wins over Chelsea in the Carabao Cup and FA Cup finals. There were no goals and little to write home about. Divock Origi and Ibrahima Konate later joined the fray as Klopp made full use of a squad everyone is now championing as the strongest for many, many years. That started with the Europa League second leg against Barcelona, then Wembley, followed by an FA Cup tie for a quarter-final place and finishing with travelling to Liverpool. As expected, Caoimhin Kelleher started ahead of Alisson Becker as Henderson returned to the side as captain 10 years and a day since he last won this competition with the Reds. "We've waited a very, very long time for this.". Mohamed Salah is still an important player for Liverpool and Klopp worked hard to extend his contract last summer. In the five years since he took the hot seat, his Liverpool team have shaken off their fragilities and come to embody a brave, front-foot style of play that is the envy of most teams around the world. Dortmund, meanwhile, had emerged from a financial crisis in 2005, but Klopp was their third coach in 18 months, and the previous season they had finished 13th after conceding a league-high 62 goals. Firmino was again deployed centrally but this time as a false nine in a three-man frontline, given the licence to move into dangerous positions inside the area as well as drift across and away from the attacking line, all the while supported by, and supporting, the forwards either side of him. It was a fun match between young, high-energy teams and a glimpse into what the two tacticians would later bring to Chelsea and Liverpool, but Klopp's side were further down the line with their aggressive pressing and rapid counter-attacks. Jurgen Klopp has won his first trophy since the 2012 German double with Borussia Dortmund Liverpool erased the disappointment of last season's Uefa Firmino's agent Roger Wittmann confirmed the player's decision on Friday, though his next move is still up in the air. The supposed penalty specialist failed to save any of the 11 before nearly blasting his own spot-kick over the Wembley arch to confirm Liverpool's name on the trophy. Liverpool, Manchester United and a shifting dynamic towards similarity | Jonathan Liew, Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. The German said (via The Liverpool Offside): James Milner is currently in the final year of his contract with Liverpool and could seek a move away from the club once his current deal expires. The Egypt international has transformed himself among the best players in the world under the guidance of the German manager. Before falling in the Champions League final against Real Madrid on May 28, they defeated Chelsea in the Carabao Cup final (Feb. 27) and the FA Cup final (May 14), both via a penalty-kick shootout after a scoreless draw. The Senegalese international called it quits on his time at Anfield at the end of last season and requested a move away - which was granted - to join German champions, Bayern Munich. But that shot should have been saved, with Karius again at fault. On social media, Liverpool fans could not help but try and coerce Mane to return to the club. He won the award in the 2019/2020 season and the 2021-2022 season. It is not that if we are in no mans land. Lewandowski - who ended his first season in Germany with eight league goals - cleverly lifted in the second shortly before half-time. How many trophies has Jurgen Klopp won? Firmino made a new role in a new-look Liverpool side his own, using his technical gifts, tireless work rate, selfless attitude and intelligence, on and off the ball, to bring the best out of himself as well as others. "My heart was beating like crazy," Klopp recalled many years later of the moment he heard that scoreline. Tuchel, who would also take over from Klopp at Dortmund in 2015, said the defeat was not something his team should be ashamed of. March 1 It was Munich again who foiled him in a final a year later, as the sides faced off in the final of the 2014 DFL-Pokal. Full throttle was what this young side did best, according to Watzke, and they continued to relentlessly reel off wins in the same way they hunted down the ball. For all the trophies and accolades that have begun to mount up in an already-overladen Anfield trophy cabinet, perhaps Klopps mastery of player psychology should be regarded as his biggest success. What also followed was a first-ever Premier League title, as Liverpool dominated the 2019-20 season in a brilliant campaign, making for a historic treble of trophies. He [Firmino] will LEAVE Liverpool after 8 years! By Will Rooney. He won his first cup final in 2012, adding the DFL-Pokal Cup to his collection by beating Bayern Munich 5-2. Confirmed: Date and venue for late Christian Atsu's final funeral rites, Cristiano Ronaldo's tunnel comments after Al Nassr win leaves fans guessing, Salah appears to aim dig at Premier League rival with records claim, Valentina Shevchenko vs Alexa Grasso: Bullet looks to defend Flyweight belt against dangerous Mexican fighter, Clinical Man City see off Newcastle to close on Arsenal, World Cup 2022: Liverpool legend crowns his greatest footballers ever, Jurgen Klopp told he lost Sadio Mane because of controversial AFCON comments in December, Sadio Mane makes bold claim about Liverpool, confident Klopp will turn things around, Versatile Barcelona midfielder signs new deal until 2024, Reus and Can send Dortmund three points clear, Real Sociedad risk losing third with Cadiz draw, Ex Barcelona star Luis Suarez reveals why Neymar is yet to win the Ballon d'Or, Lionel Messi included in Argentina's 35 man squad for upcoming friendlies in March. WebKlopp lost out in his only appearance in the competition in 2020 as Arsenal sealed a penalty shootout win after a 1-1 draw at Wembley. The smirks, the smiles, the no-look goals and Kung fu-kick celebrations; Bobby delighted Kopites in so many ways, over and over again. The new manager twice started Firmino as a No 10 and once, in a win at Stamford Bridge, as a lone forward, and while he did OK his contributions were neither sparkling or potent. And lets be honest, its probably impossible. Over the years it has been a fixture which has led to the team considered to be weaker or struggling to elevate their performance but not last season. Twelve points clear of second-placed Leverkusen and 16 ahead of the defending champions, it felt like nothing could stop Dortmund with 10 games to go. It wasnt about their technical ability as footballers. The first came under Bob Paisley, who added two more to the trophy cabinet before his successor Joe Fagan also won the famous cup. WebJurgen Klopp can see the funny side of Liverpools Premier League penalty record, with the Reds going almost a year without one. Extra time beckoned before it was decided that there would, in fact, be penalties to settle it. Last summer, reports suggested Liverpool were open to cashing in on Firmino despite also losing Mane. Watch all the world-class live sport you love without having to sign a contract. Sadio Mane formed a part of Liverpool's fearsome attacking trio with Egyptian winger, Mohamed Salah and Brazilian striker, Roberto Firmino that helped the Reds win every trophy under Jurgen Klopp. Liverpool transfer news, rumours, gossip and speculation including updates on Roberto Firmino, Manuel Locatelli, Naby Keita and Mason Mount. The German manager has helped the Reds win one Premier League title, one UEFA Champions League trophy, one EFL Cup, one FA Cup, one UEFA Super Cup and one FIFA Club World Cup. The first and only Club World Cup was added to the trophy cabinet by Klopp and his team in 2019, with Qatar providing the backdrop. In short, this was the sort of impactful performance that Liverpool fans had become accustomed with the Portuguese hotshot during his first two campaigns in a red With one of the best squads in the world, Liverpool were upset in the final on a lone Vinicius goal despite outshooting the Spanish club 24-4. Klopp had departed his former side Borussia Dortmund in May that year with two Bundesliga titles, a German Cup and a Champions League final appearance, hoping to take a break from the intensity of football management. They were far from the last. The quadruple-chasing Reds are one quarter into their mission; one trophy down, three to go. Liverpool stride out onto the Bernabeu pitch on Wednesday 5-2 down on aggregate. Jurgen Klopp does his best dad dancing and young fan lifts the trophy with the team as Liverpool celebrate record breaking Carabao Cup triumph Jackson Cole 4 How many How Long Did It Take Klopp To Win A Trophy After Liverpools comprehensive 4-0 win last season, the suggestion Manchester United were years behind their rivals took hold, Carragher told the Daily Every trophy Jurgen Klopp has won at Liverpool. All that was to be forgotten the following year however as Klopp ensured his men returned with a renewed hunger to end their 30-year league title drought and they did so in emphatic style, wrapping up the title with seven games to spare in a new league record. News and results Well-arranged and in one place. Following a tough run of finals where his performance in big matches was openly questioned, Klopp finally broke through in 2019 with Liverpool as they secured the club's sixth European Cup, beating Tottenham 2-0 in the final. However it ends now is anyone's guess, but it will be a fascinating, thrilling, utterly compelling watch over the next two months. [, Roberto Firmino, va his agent, Roger Wittman: Ive had my time but its time to go. subsequently beat Tottenham 2-0 in the final in Madrid. There's a lot of football to be played before that tantalising prospect is a reality, but the naked fact that a truly unprecedented quadruple is still in sight at the start of March will whet the appetite for what could genuinely be halcyon days, even at this most storied of football clubs. Everyone contributed in an admirable collective effort. Ferguson knew exactly the button to press but, in fairness, he also meant it. Because while this is the first time that Klopp's Liverpool have been able to physically lift silverware in front of their own fans on domestic soil, this could simply be the one that gets the ball rolling on the most incredible period ever at Liverpool FC. He In September 2002 Sir Alex Ferguson was under pressure. He wont extend his contract. Liverpool legend Danny Murphy has admitted that he is "worried" about Manchester United as he feels Erik ten Hag's side can win a treble this season. The Reds have proudly won six European Cups more than any other British team. "I think there's rarely been a champion thats deserved it as much - they're on fire," said Stuttgart coach Bruno Labbadia when asked about Germany's youngest ever champions, who seemed as popular as they were effective. With Australian Mitchell Langerak making his competitive debut in place of the injured Weidenfeller, the visitors fielded the youngest team in their Bundesliga history - with an average age of 22.3 years. That is not a statement that is uttered lightly, either. The Wolves added up-and-coming Croatian Mario Mandzukic to a formidable attack that still included title heroes Edin Dzeko and Grafite. Henry, influenced by baseballs Moneyball statistical insurrection, honed in on Klopp after his name was identified by a team of leading mathematicians and data scientists as the right man for the job. Jul 30, 2022 2:02 PM EDT. We have to change from doubters to believers, he beamed, Now.. The party really began - for the fans at least - when Dortmund's stadium announcer confirmed the rumour: title rivals Leverkusen were losing. The argument was that despite having not won the title since 1990, before Jurgen Klopp finally delivered it again in 2020, Liverpool had stayed big and stayed Jurgen Klopp's record at Liverpool Patience It took Liverpool almost three years to win their first trophy under Klopp, but the improvement was evident. That decisive period followed an earlier At Dortmund, he reached the Champions League final at Wembley, where his side were edged out by a last-gasp winner from Arjen Robben which broke Dortmund hearts as they lost 2-1 to Bayern Munich. It would also complete the most unlikely of league doubles having beaten Liverpool 2-1 in August in a febrile Old Trafford when Ten Hag was feeling the heat after a shocking start to the campaign - a 2-1 loss to Brighton at home followed by a 4-0 defeat to Brentford away.Despite Liverpools dominance over United in recent years it really is, of course, eventually about knocking the noisy neighbours of Manchester City off the top spot and that may take longer.Arsenal are obviously having a huge say in that as they, like United, are on their way back and are probably further ahead.